[XeTeX] [INDOLOGY] {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Issues with Sanskrit 2003 font

[Dominik Wujastyk]

I've done some more Devanagari font testing, and the results can be viewed
here
<Loading Image...>.


The TeX code that produced this is in my blog
<https://cikitsa.blogspot.ca/2017/06/expanded-devanagari-font-comparison.html>
.

Of the fonts tried out, only Sanskrit 2003, Murty Sanskrit, and Shobhika do
the right things with *ṣaṭtriṃśad*.

Best,
Dominik


​
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
​,​

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
​,​

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
​,​
University of Alberta, Canada
​.​

South Asia at the U of A:

​sas.ualberta.ca​
​​

Dear Vikram,
Your plan to work on refining and expanding Sanskrit 2003 is excellent!
Since funding is needed, I recommend you consider a crowd-funding
initiative. That would fit the situation very well, allowing people to
contribute in a structured and transparent manner, and avoiding many legal
and financial problems.
Please, please give the font a new name, when your work is released. Even
if it's just Sanskrit 2003A.
About the design of Sanskrit 2003, I still like the font best, I think,
amongst the many Devanagaris available today. Murty Sanskrit is my second
choice, and I would add that Murty Sanskrit looks better on paper than on
the screen.
However, about Sanskrit 2003, I find it a little compressed,
horizontally. The document processing system I use, TeX, allows me to
tweak that as I wish, and I have found that expanding Sanskrit 2003 by 8%
horizontally gives a result that is more pleasing to my eye. It's a
personal thing, but perhaps worth thinking about.
Here are some samples <https://tinyurl.com/y96ufrog> of Sanskrit 2003
normal and stretched, with some other faces for comparison.
Best,
Dominik
​
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
​,​
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
​,​
Department of History and Classics
<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
​,​
University of Alberta, Canada
​.​
​sas.ualberta.ca​
​​
On 15 June 2017 at 13:51, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <

Hello Vikram,
This is a wonderful news. Having done some font-designing myself, I
know how time-consuming and complicated this work is. I hope your effort
is successful and produces an improved version of Sanskrit 2003, with
light, bold and italic versions. Please keep us posted about availability
of these new versions. With best wishes,
Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Hi Everyone,
I am writing this as I am collaborating with a
typography expert to create a better version of Sanskrit 2003 free for all
with support for light weight and several ligature upgrades. As with any
activity of this scale funds are required to be able to keep the project
going. If anyone is willing to contribute financially please get in touch
with me.
A sample version of the upgraded font is attached
below.
<Loading Image...>

Dear Colleagues,
I have been using the Sanskrit 2003 unicode Devanagari font for
some time, and have noticed that for some characters, the anusvāra almost
merges with characters like sign for short "i". Here are a few sample
[image: Inline image 1]
Am I alone in seeing these problems, or is this happening only on
Mac computers, and not on Windows? I have written to Omkarananda Ashram
about this and I am hoping to hear from them.
If someone has a solution to this font problem, I would appreciate
hearing it.
Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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[Zdenek Wagner]

Hi all,

as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts. The only exception is FreeSerif which takes the Devanagari block
from the Velthuis Devanagari and models the two modes from the "good old"
Velthuis Devanagari, namely @sanskrit and @modernhindi. It was my
suggestion implemented by Steve White. In all other Devanagari fonts
language switching has no effect because there is nothing to switch, the
language variants are not defined. I do not know how to do it, Steve White
knows. I just specified the desired result and Steve did it. It would be
nice if other font designerse learned from his work.


Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

Post by Dominik Wujastyk
I've done some more Devanagari font testing, and the results can be
viewed here
<https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xrWfqTJ9Xjo/WUXAcgjxhVI/AAAAAAAApRA/36wC0n2gjlQQB9bNDnTGGPjD13veSgoXQCLcBGAs/s1600/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2017-06-17%2B17-48-08.png>.
The TeX code that produced this is in my blog
<https://cikitsa.blogspot.ca/2017/06/expanded-devanagari-font-comparison.html>
.
Of the fonts tried out, only Sanskrit 2003, Murty Sanskrit, and Shobhika
do the right things with *ṣaṭtriṃśad*.
Best,
Dominik
​
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
​,​
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
​,​
Department of History and Classics
<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
​,​
University of Alberta, Canada
​.​
​sas.ualberta.ca​
​​

Dear Vikram,
Your plan to work on refining and expanding Sanskrit 2003 is excellent!
Since funding is needed, I recommend you consider a crowd-funding
initiative. That would fit the situation very well, allowing people to
contribute in a structured and transparent manner, and avoiding many legal
and financial problems.
Please, please give the font a new name, when your work is released. Even
if it's just Sanskrit 2003A.
About the design of Sanskrit 2003, I still like the font best, I think,
amongst the many Devanagaris available today. Murty Sanskrit is my second
choice, and I would add that Murty Sanskrit looks better on paper than on
the screen.
However, about Sanskrit 2003, I find it a little compressed,
horizontally. The document processing system I use, TeX, allows me to
tweak that as I wish, and I have found that expanding Sanskrit 2003 by 8%
horizontally gives a result that is more pleasing to my eye. It's a
personal thing, but perhaps worth thinking about.
Here are some samples <https://tinyurl.com/y96ufrog> of Sanskrit 2003
normal and stretched, with some other faces for comparison.
Best,
Dominik
​
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
​,​
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
​,​
Department of History and Classics
<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
​,​
University of Alberta, Canada
​.​
​sas.ualberta.ca​
​​
On 15 June 2017 at 13:51, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <

Hello Vikram,
This is a wonderful news. Having done some font-designing myself,
I know how time-consuming and complicated this work is. I hope your effort
is successful and produces an improved version of Sanskrit 2003, with
light, bold and italic versions. Please keep us posted about availability
of these new versions. With best wishes,
Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Hi Everyone,
I am writing this as I am collaborating with a
typography expert to create a better version of Sanskrit 2003 free for all
with support for light weight and several ligature upgrades. As with any
activity of this scale funds are required to be able to keep the project
going. If anyone is willing to contribute financially please get in touch
with me.
A sample version of the upgraded font is attached
below.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5PUqOJ81id8/WUKWHI9KrBI/AAAAAAAAK_U/LuRRxXRlmbw-OagEfS1N2vzoPB594qKEgCLcBGAs/s1600/Sanskrit%2BBold%252BFinetuned%252BLight.jpg>

Dear Colleagues,
I have been using the Sanskrit 2003 unicode Devanagari font for
some time, and have noticed that for some characters, the anusvāra almost
merges with characters like sign for short "i". Here are a few sample
[image: Inline image 1]
Am I alone in seeing these problems, or is this happening only on
Mac computers, and not on Windows? I have written to Omkarananda Ashram
about this and I am hoping to hear from them.
If someone has a solution to this font problem, I would appreciate
hearing it.
Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "à€­à€Ÿà€°à€€à¥€à€¯à€µà€¿à€Šà¥à€µà€€à¥à€ªà€°à€¿à€·à€€à¥" group.
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[Mike Maxwell]

Post by Zdenek Wagner
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts.

Do other languages that use Devanagari, like Gujarati, use the same
conjuncts as Hindi?
--
Mike Maxwell
"My definition of an interesting universe is
one that has the capacity to study itself."
--Stephen Eastmond


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[Zdenek Wagner]

Post by Mike Maxwell

Post by Zdenek Wagner
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts.

Do other languages that use Devanagari, like Gujarati, use the same
conjuncts as Hindi?

Gujarati is written in the Gujarati script. Devanagari is used in Marathi
and Nepali. There is a Nepali Linux Group, I offered them that I create
xindy rules and Steve White asked me about the conjuncts so that he could
implement the Nepali language but I got no reply from them. I have no
response from Marathi users either but I have some printed documents in
Marathi and it seems that the set of conjucts is the same as in nowadays
Hindi (Marathi does not use characters with nuktas, thus the name of the
Bollywood actress Priyanka Chopra is written as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà€¡à€Œà€Ÿ in Hindi
newspapers and as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€Ÿà€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà¥à€°à€Ÿ in Marathi newspapers). I have not ben
to Rajastan so I do not know whether Rajastan, Mevari, Marvari have
differences but probably not.

So the result is that Marathi is most probably a subset of Hindi hence
Language=Hindi can also be used for Marathi. Strictly Marathi font may be
unusable for Hindi because the charcters with nuktas and especially their
conjuncts and half forms need not be available in the font. I saw such a
font a few years ago but it was fixed.


Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

Post by Mike Maxwell
--
Mike Maxwell
"My definition of an interesting universe is
one that has the capacity to study itself."
--Stephen Eastmond

[Christian Boitet]

Hi, 18/6/17

Marathi (script) is surely not a subset ofHindi (script) as, for example, there are 2 letters "L" in Marathi and 1 only in Hindi.

Maybe some colleagues from India or Pakistan could help. I put 3 in copy.

IITB/CFILT is doing work on Hindi, Marathi, Bengali and more since years under Prof. Pushpak Bhattacharyya. Ritesh Shah is finishing his PhD with both of us and is a Gujarati native speaker.
Prof. Pushpak is currently President of the ACL and knows everybody in NLP in India. He can certainly answer many questions and give pointers to colleagues who know all the details of the "Indo-Pak" langages. Abbas Malik, who also did his PhD with us, knows probably the most about Indo-Pak languages and their scripts as he did his PhD on transliteration between scripts of these languages (many have 2).

Best,
Christian Boitet

as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit conjuncts.
Do other languages that use Devanagari, like Gujarati, use the same conjuncts as Hindi?
Gujarati is written in the Gujarati script. Devanagari is used in Marathi and Nepali. There is a Nepali Linux Group, I offered them that I create xindy rules and Steve White asked me about the conjuncts so that he could implement the Nepali language but I got no reply from them. I have no response from Marathi users either but I have some printed documents in Marathi and it seems that the set of conjucts is the same as in nowadays Hindi (Marathi does not use characters with nuktas, thus the name of the Bollywood actress Priyanka Chopra is written as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà€¡à€Œà€Ÿ in Hindi newspapers and as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€Ÿà€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà¥à€°à€Ÿ in Marathi newspapers). I have not ben to Rajastan so I do not know whether Rajastan, Mevari, Marvari have differences but probably not.
So the result is that Marathi is most probably a subset of Hindi hence Language=Hindi can also be used for Marathi. Strictly Marathi font may be unusable for Hindi because the charcters with nuktas and especially their conjuncts and half forms need not be available in the font. I saw such a font a few years ago but it was fixed.
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml <http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml>
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz <http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/>
--
Mike Maxwell
"My definition of an interesting universe is
one that has the capacity to study itself."
--Stephen Eastmond
--------------------------------------------------
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Boitet
(Pr. émérite Université Grenoble Alpes)
Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
L I G
Groupe d'Etude pour la Traduction Automatique
et le Traitement Automatisé des Langues et de la Parole
G E T A L P

--- Adresse postale ---
GETALP, LIG-campus
Bâtiment IMAG, bureau 339
CS 40700
38058 Grenoble Cedex 9
France

[Zdenek Wagner]

Hi, 18/6/17
Marathi (script) is surely not a subset ofHindi (script) as, for example,
there are 2 letters "L" in Marathi and 1 only in Hindi.

You are right. I forgot Salman Khan who has this second L in his name.

Maybe some colleagues from India or Pakistan could help. I put 3 in copy.
IITB/CFILT is doing work on Hindi, Marathi, Bengali and more since years
under Prof. Pushpak Bhattacharyya. Ritesh Shah is finishing his PhD with
both of us and is a Gujarati native speaker.
Prof. Pushpak is currently President of the ACL and knows everybody in NLP
in India. He can certainly answer many questions and give pointers to
colleagues who know all the details of the "Indo-Pak" langages. Abbas
Malik, who also did his PhD with us, knows probably the most about Indo-Pak
languages and their scripts as he did his PhD on transliteration between
scripts of these languages (many have 2).

Yes, IITB/CFILT produces among others online dictionaries and corpra for
both Hindi and Marathi. They use there own transliteration which is not
very intuitive, for instance they use "w" for dental T which was a source
of quite a lot of errors. I reported them and Jaya Saraswati corrected
them. I think that their dictionaries are the best on the web.

Best,
Christian Boitet
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

Post by Zdenek Wagner
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts.

Do other languages that use Devanagari, like Gujarati, use the same conjuncts as Hindi?

Gujarati is written in the Gujarati script. Devanagari is used in Marathi
and Nepali. There is a Nepali Linux Group, I offered them that I create
xindy rules and Steve White asked me about the conjuncts so that he could
implement the Nepali language but I got no reply from them. I have no
response from Marathi users either but I have some printed documents in
Marathi and it seems that the set of conjucts is the same as in nowadays
Hindi (Marathi does not use characters with nuktas, thus the name of the
Bollywood actress Priyanka Chopra is written as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà€¡à€Œà€Ÿ in Hindi
newspapers and as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€Ÿà€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà¥à€°à€Ÿ in Marathi newspapers). I have not ben
to Rajastan so I do not know whether Rajastan, Mevari, Marvari have
differences but probably not.
So the result is that Marathi is most probably a subset of Hindi hence
Language=Hindi can also be used for Marathi. Strictly Marathi font may be
unusable for Hindi because the charcters with nuktas and especially their
conjuncts and half forms need not be available in the font. I saw such a
font a few years ago but it was fixed.
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

--
Mike Maxwell
"My definition of an interesting universe is
one that has the capacity to study itself."
--Stephen Eastmond

--------------------------------------------------
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Boitet
(Pr. émérite Université Grenoble Alpes)
Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
L I G
Groupe d'Etude pour la Traduction Automatique
et le Traitement Automatisé des Langues et de la Parole
G E T A L P
--- Adresse postale ---
GETALP, LIG-campus
Bâtiment IMAG, bureau 339
CS 40700
38058 Grenoble Cedex 9
France
--------------------------------------------------
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex

[Zdenek Wagner]

I should add one more note. Indian languages are complex, the same word may
have two or more orthographies and all of them are correct. Even Hindi has
two forms in Devanagari, à€¹à€¿à€‚à€Šà¥€ and à€¹à€¿à€šà¥à€Šà¥€, both are found with more or less
the same frequency. There are two forms of independent A, both are in use.
The character group nna is sometimes written as a conjunct, sometimes as
half-na + na. I have a leaflet where two parts of the text are printed each
with a different font. One part contains the nna conjunct, the other part
contains half-na + na. When working on @modernhindi in the Velthuis
Devanagari system, Anshuman Pandey asked both Indian typographers and
normal people what they prefer to see. This selection is implemented in
freefont.

The somewhat extreme case can be found in the Czech-Hindi dictionary
published by the Central Hindi Directorate and available as a preview
online:
http://hindinideshalaya.nic.in/hindi/onlinebook/czechHindiDictionary.asp

Use the "Next Page" or the direct link below to navigate to th colophon
page and look how "dvitiy" is printed:
http://hindinideshalaya.nic.in/hindi/onlinebook/czechHindiDictionary.asp?currentPage=4

The result is that there are often several forms and all of them are
equally correct. We cannot say that one form is correct and another is
wrong. The implementation is thus typographer's choice. And, of course,
languages evolve, orthography evolves. You can notice that some people are
not able to pronounce Brahma properly, they pronounce Bramha and even write
it this way in Devanagari, for instance here:
http://aajtak.intoday.in/story/arti-of-lord-shiva-1-870255.html


Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

Post by Zdenek Wagner

Hi, 18/6/17
Marathi (script) is surely not a subset ofHindi (script) as, for example,
there are 2 letters "L" in Marathi and 1 only in Hindi.

You are right. I forgot Salman Khan who has this second L in his name.

Maybe some colleagues from India or Pakistan could help. I put 3 in copy.
IITB/CFILT is doing work on Hindi, Marathi, Bengali and more since years
under Prof. Pushpak Bhattacharyya. Ritesh Shah is finishing his PhD with
both of us and is a Gujarati native speaker.
Prof. Pushpak is currently President of the ACL and knows everybody in
NLP in India. He can certainly answer many questions and give pointers to
colleagues who know all the details of the "Indo-Pak" langages. Abbas
Malik, who also did his PhD with us, knows probably the most about Indo-Pak
languages and their scripts as he did his PhD on transliteration between
scripts of these languages (many have 2).

Yes, IITB/CFILT produces among others online dictionaries and corpra for
both Hindi and Marathi. They use there own transliteration which is not
very intuitive, for instance they use "w" for dental T which was a source
of quite a lot of errors. I reported them and Jaya Saraswati corrected
them. I think that their dictionaries are the best on the web.

Best,
Christian Boitet
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

Post by Zdenek Wagner
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts.

Do other languages that use Devanagari, like Gujarati, use the same conjuncts as Hindi?

Gujarati is written in the Gujarati script. Devanagari is used in Marathi
and Nepali. There is a Nepali Linux Group, I offered them that I create
xindy rules and Steve White asked me about the conjuncts so that he could
implement the Nepali language but I got no reply from them. I have no
response from Marathi users either but I have some printed documents in
Marathi and it seems that the set of conjucts is the same as in nowadays
Hindi (Marathi does not use characters with nuktas, thus the name of the
Bollywood actress Priyanka Chopra is written as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà€¡à€Œà€Ÿ in Hindi
newspapers and as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€Ÿà€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà¥à€°à€Ÿ in Marathi newspapers). I have not ben
to Rajastan so I do not know whether Rajastan, Mevari, Marvari have
differences but probably not.
So the result is that Marathi is most probably a subset of Hindi hence
Language=Hindi can also be used for Marathi. Strictly Marathi font may be
unusable for Hindi because the charcters with nuktas and especially their
conjuncts and half forms need not be available in the font. I saw such a
font a few years ago but it was fixed.
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

--
Mike Maxwell
"My definition of an interesting universe is
one that has the capacity to study itself."
--Stephen Eastmond

--------------------------------------------------
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Boitet
(Pr. émérite Université Grenoble Alpes)
Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
L I G
Groupe d'Etude pour la Traduction Automatique
et le Traitement Automatisé des Langues et de la Parole
G E T A L P
--- Adresse postale ---
GETALP, LIG-campus
Bâtiment IMAG, bureau 339
CS 40700
38058 Grenoble Cedex 9
France
--------------------------------------------------
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex

[RD Holkar]

Hi all,

@Christian Boitet- you are right. Marathi characters are not subsets of the
Hindi ones.

Firstly, Marathi has two L s unlike Hindi, à€² and à€³. On InScript keyboard,
the second one is considered as "harsh" L, in the sense that it is obtained
by "Shift+à€²'.
This harsh L appears in Vedic Sanskrit also, e.g. from Rigveda:
à€…à€¹à¥‡à€³à€®à€Ÿà€šà¥‹ à€µà€°à¥à€£à¥‡à€¹ à€¬à¥‹à€§à¥à€¯à¥à€°à¥à€¶â—Œà€‚à€ž à€®à€Ÿ à€š à€†à€¯à¥à€ƒ à€ªà¥à€° à€®à¥‹à€·à¥€à€ƒà¥¥ १.ॊग़४.११॥
Secondly, the way à€¶ in Marathi is written is different than in Hindi.
And finally, the soft L, or à€² is typed differently in Marathi.

For the details see Table 12.6 on page 461 in the unicode standard version
specifications, the link below:
http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.0/ch12.pdf


Finally, the fonts "Yashomudra" and "Yashovenu" prepared by CDAC and the
Goverment's Institute for Marathi Language Development (à€°à€Ÿà€œà¥à€¯ à€®à€°à€Ÿà€ à¥€ à€µà€¿à€•à€Ÿà€ž
à€žà€‚à€žà¥à€¥à€Ÿ ) have these characters. IIT Bombay's Girish Dalvi has the font
"Mukta" and the above two fonts allow to choose Marathi characters in LaTeX
(polyglossia) by adding the parameter "StylisticSet=1" in (Xe)LaTeX with
Polyglossia.

With best regards,
-Rohit.

Hi, 18/6/17
Marathi (script) is surely not a subset ofHindi (script) as, for example,
there are 2 letters "L" in Marathi and 1 only in Hindi.
Maybe some colleagues from India or Pakistan could help. I put 3 in copy.
IITB/CFILT is doing work on Hindi, Marathi, Bengali and more since years
under Prof. Pushpak Bhattacharyya. Ritesh Shah is finishing his PhD with
both of us and is a Gujarati native speaker.
Prof. Pushpak is currently President of the ACL and knows everybody in NLP
in India. He can certainly answer many questions and give pointers to
colleagues who know all the details of the "Indo-Pak" langages. Abbas
Malik, who also did his PhD with us, knows probably the most about Indo-Pak
languages and their scripts as he did his PhD on transliteration between
scripts of these languages (many have 2).
Best,
Christian Boitet

Post by Zdenek Wagner
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts.

Do other languages that use Devanagari, like Gujarati, use the same conjuncts as Hindi?

Gujarati is written in the Gujarati script. Devanagari is used in Marathi
and Nepali. There is a Nepali Linux Group, I offered them that I create
xindy rules and Steve White asked me about the conjuncts so that he could
implement the Nepali language but I got no reply from them. I have no
response from Marathi users either but I have some printed documents in
Marathi and it seems that the set of conjucts is the same as in nowadays
Hindi (Marathi does not use characters with nuktas, thus the name of the
Bollywood actress Priyanka Chopra is written as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà€¡à€Œà€Ÿ in Hindi
newspapers and as à€ªà¥à€°à€¿à€¯à€Ÿà€‚à€•à€Ÿ à€šà¥‹à€ªà¥à€°à€Ÿ in Marathi newspapers). I have not ben
to Rajastan so I do not know whether Rajastan, Mevari, Marvari have
differences but probably not.
So the result is that Marathi is most probably a subset of Hindi hence
Language=Hindi can also be used for Marathi. Strictly Marathi font may be
unusable for Hindi because the charcters with nuktas and especially their
conjuncts and half forms need not be available in the font. I saw such a
font a few years ago but it was fixed.
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

--
Mike Maxwell
"My definition of an interesting universe is
one that has the capacity to study itself."
--Stephen Eastmond

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L I G
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[ShreeDevi Kumar]

Hi Everyone,
I am writing this as I am collaborating with a
typography expert to create a better version of Sanskrit 2003 free for all
with support for light weight and several ligature upgrades. As with any
activity of this scale funds are required to be able to keep the project
going. If anyone is willing to contribute financially please get in touch
with me.

​Vikram,

I hope you have contacted Omkarananda Ashram and got permission for
modifying the Sanskrit2003 font.

+ cc: ***@omkarananda-ashram.org

​

ShreeDevi
____________________________________________________________
à€­à€œà€š - à€•à¥€à€°à¥à€€à€š - à€†à€°à€€à¥€ @ http://bhajans.ramparivar.com

[Vikram Iyer]

Hi,

I am in Rishikesh to specifically talk to Omkarananda Ashrama regarding the same. Having had the discussion with the Swamiji previously he is definitely open for it if it will help improve the font.


Sent from my iPhone

Post by ShreeDevi Kumar

Hi Everyone,
I am writing this as I am collaborating with a typography expert to create a better version of Sanskrit 2003 free for all with support for light weight and several ligature upgrades. As with any activity of this scale funds are required to be able to keep the project going. If anyone is willing to contribute financially please get in touch with me.

​Vikram,
I hope you have contacted Omkarananda Ashram and got permission for modifying the Sanskrit2003 font.
​
ShreeDevi
____________________________________________________________

[Dominik Wujastyk]

Dear Zdenek, what you say is borne out by my tests, where the only font
showing a difference between Sanskrit and Hindi is the FreeSerif (the -kti-
conjunct).

(I used the Fontspec/Polyglossia system for language-switching.)

Best,
Dominik

Post by Zdenek Wagner
Hi all,
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts. The only exception is FreeSerif which takes the Devanagari block
from the Velthuis Devanagari and models the two modes from the "good old"
suggestion implemented by Steve White. In all other Devanagari fonts
language switching has no effect because there is nothing to switch, the
language variants are not defined. I do not know how to do it, Steve White
knows. I just specified the desired result and Steve did it. It would be
nice if other font designers learned from his work.
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

[Zdenek Wagner]

Post by Dominik Wujastyk
Dear Zdenek, what you say is borne out by my tests, where the only font
showing a difference between Sanskrit and Hindi is the FreeSerif (the -kti-
conjunct).

Not only kta but also nna and many other (try for instance à€ªà¥à€°à€žà€šà¥à€šà€€à€Ÿ)॰

Post by Dominik Wujastyk
(I used the Fontspec/Polyglossia system for language-switching.)

This is a matter of font shaping in the engine (harfbuzz, pango, icu).
Fontspec/Polyglossia only sends the language request to the font shaping
engine. It is nowadays properly handled even by modern web browsers. If
your browser is new enough, you should see the difference on my web page
http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/freefont-devanagari/ where the same word is in
the <span> element, first with xml:lang="sa", then with xml:lang="hi".

Post by Dominik Wujastyk
Best,
Dominik

Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

Post by Dominik Wujastyk

Post by Zdenek Wagner
Hi all,
as far as I know the Devanagari fonts are either Sanskrit with all
conjuncts that cannot be switched off or Hindi without the Sanskrit
conjuncts. The only exception is FreeSerif which takes the Devanagari block
from the Velthuis Devanagari and models the two modes from the "good old"
suggestion implemented by Steve White. In all other Devanagari fonts
language switching has no effect because there is nothing to switch, the
language variants are not defined. I do not know how to do it, Steve White
knows. I just specified the desired result and Steve did it. It would be
nice if other font designers learned from his work.
Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

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[Philip Taylor]

If your browser is new enough, you should see the difference on my web page http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/freefont-devanagari/ where the same word is in the <span> element, first with xml:lang="sa", then with xml:lang="hi".

Difference visible in Seamonkey 2.46 64-bit (Windows).